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Subject: someone help me understand what this means.......
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ithinksoUser is Offline

Posts:23

11/02/2007 11:55 PM  

People want to feel the freedom within themselves to take on life in a robust and optimistic way. So when we recognize that we have done wrong and that freedom is not realized, some believe God's forgiveness is not enough. Some say we must be able to forgive ourselves. But according to Scripture, freedom does not come from a personal declaration, freedom comes from the identity and forgiveness we are given by God.

MagdelenaUser is Offline

Posts:8

11/03/2007 10:30 AM  

I am sorry if I am not much help, but this message has intrigued me. I do believe that the freedom is given by God in the form of forgiveness among all the other things he gives us. I think having been through the whole "I can't forgive myself" issue though that it is not so much us forgiving ourselves, but finally "getting" it that we truly have been forgiven. I think that many times, even though we say we believe that God has forgiven us, we are still waiting for the "other shoe to drop" so to speak. Like how many of us feel that anything bad that happens to us is proof that we deserve the bad things and is proof that we aren't really forgiven. I think things make more sense logically (for me at least) when I think in terms of being a parent, instead of the "misbehaving child" which is what I liken us to when we try to understand our relationship with God. I think like this When one of my kids does something wrong, and I can tell they are truly sorry, or did not fully realize what their actions will bring upon them, I feel compassion, not anger, and I feel sorrow to see them in such pain. I think if we could try to use this kind of filter more often when thinking of our relationship with our Father, we would at least  logically understand better, and I believe the emotion will be easier to cope with and work through... I hope this helped...even just a little...

Peace and Love,

Magdelena

TylersDadUser is Offline

Posts:18


11/08/2007 7:33 AM  
Ithinkso
 
This is a question and process we all struggle with. I hope that I can give you an answer that will bring more understanding about the issue of forgiveness both what we receive from God as a gift through Jesus Christ and that which we must manage in our own lives.
 
The issue of forgiveness from God is settled in a very simple way and that forgiveness is neither contingent on nor controlled by anything we do. Let me quote just a few scriptures that give us this assurance.
 
Romans 10:8-10
8-But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart”, that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9-That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10-For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
 
Ephesians 2:8-10 
8-For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9-not by works, so that no one can boast. 10-For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
 
Romans 8:38-39
38-For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39-neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. 
 
These three passages reveal the nature and character of God’s forgiveness. It is ours through belief (faith) and confession, it is free and has nothing to do with us and it is forever. To truly understand the distinction between God’s forgiveness and human forgiveness (the forgiveness that comes from us) is to understand how each is applied. God’s forgiveness relates to our spiritual condition and human forgiveness relates to the way we live in the physical world. The challenge for us while we live in our physical bodies is to learn how to apply God’s forgiveness to our daily lives as it relates to us personally and those around us.
 
One of the greatest challenges in understanding this difference is how we as humans “feel” about foriveness towards ourselves and others. God’s forgiveness has nothing to do with whether we “feel” saved or not, it is a reality based on God’s promise through His word. Our emotions do not control God’s words or actions. 
 
The enemy we all face on a daily basis is satan, and one of satan’s greatest tools of deception is our emotions. Satan wants us to doubt our forgiven condition based on who we are and what we have done. Satan causes us to doubt our freedom in forgiveness by saying things to ourselves like, “How can God forgive me after what I did, I don’t deserve God’s forgiveness, I can’t be forgiven because I don’t feel forgiven, how can God forgive me when I can’t forgive myself?” The tragedy here is that we can deny ourselves the freedom to live forgiven and free. Satan knows that our eternal condition is secure so now he wants us to live a hell on earth by using the guilt and shame of the past to deny us the freedom and abundance in life we receive through God’s grace. It would be like someone giving us a beautiful new house filled with wonderful things which will make our lives easier and more satisfying but deciding we don’t deserve it because of how we feel so we continue to live in the pig pin next door. It is we who deny ourselves the reality of forgiveness and allow the “feeling” of being incomplete in our forgiveness.
 
What we must learn to do if we are to ever live the lives of power, abundance and freedom promised to us through God’s word is to do what the Apostle Paul instructs us in the passage below.
 
Philippians 3:13b-15
13b-But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14-I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
 
That “prize” Paul refers to is freedom and abundance in Jesus Christ, the reality of knowing we will spend eternity in God’s presence. The challenge in doing this is to learn how to apply God’s forgiveness to ourselves and others around us. The key to doing this is found in this passage which contains the words of Jesus Himself.
 
Luke 6:36-38
36-Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. 37-"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38-Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
 
Many people believe that this verse is saying that if we do these things God will dothe same for us, in reality what Jesus is saying is that if we learn to treat others with the same mercy and grace God has given us we will also learn how to forgive ourselves and live with abundance and freedom. What Jesus is really saying is that we should treat ourselves and others with the same mercy God has given us. If we cannot move past self condemnation, self judgment and un-forgiveness we will never be able to receive the gifts of God in this life. Think of it this way, not only is Jesus saying don’t judge others and you won’t be judged, He is also saying don’t judge yourself and you won’t be judged. Forgive others and you will be forgiven by others and also forgive yourself and you will be forgiven. Finally Jesus is telling us that what we give to others and ourselves is what we receive in return and in even greater amounts than we give. So when we give ourselves and others forgiveness, we receive it from God in greater measure, that is we can enjoy the complete forgiveness God has already given us. When we treat ourselves and others with mercy, then we can receive the full measure of God’s mercy which He wants us to enjoy. Simply put, if we can’t forgive ourselves how could we ever fully live and enjoy the forgiveness God has given to us. 
 
The issue of God’s forgiveness was dealt with through the substitutionary sacrifice of Jesus when He died for us. When we receive by faith and confession God’s forgiveness we get it all, God holds nothing back. We are the ones who measure out God’s forgiveness to ourselves based on what we feel and how we view our past. Remember God has told us that “as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.” As the song by Casting Crowns tells us, “from one nail scared hand to the other.” 
 
Abundance, freedom, a “robust and optimistic life” is ours already, is our choice how much of it we will measure out to ourselves and others today. There is another line from the same song by Casting Crowns that is so powerful and is the key to this question of forgiveness, “I can’t live by how I feel, but by the truth your word reveals. I’m not holding onto you but your holding onto me.”
 
Today God’s mercies, His grace, His forgiveness are new all over again. Seize the gifts of God and live a life of true freedom, abundance and peace!

Living by Faith, Tyler's Dad
ChelseesmomUser is Offline

Posts:3

09/01/2008 6:27 PM  
I think it means we need to LET God forgive us.If we don't trust that he has forgiven us and move on that is the same and not being forgiven at all.
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